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#1402 - 08/23/11 02:07 PM Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps
Niles Coyote Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 901
Loc: S.W. Michigan
Questioning what bullet weights will work with its 9.125" twist (not 100% sure if it’s a 9.125" or 9.25" but I believe I read its 9.125 somewhere). Bryan Litz's data shows Berger 87vld & 95vld should work but any one try 105 bergers or 105 a-max in this rifle before. Those two look questionable in stability... confused

If you have tried these in a factory Remington barrel I would like to hear from you and your experience, also at what ASL you were shooting at. sick

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#1403 - 08/23/11 03:39 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Scout1 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 130
Loc: NE FLA
I've never relied on it but here is a link to a ballistic stability calculator click here
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#1404 - 08/23/11 04:04 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Cinch Offline

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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 703
Loc: Wyoming
I think the 105 Amax might or might not work. It's right on the edge and will depend on the rifle. I'd sure give them a try though. Those 105s are worth building a rifle around...

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#1411 - 08/23/11 10:31 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Niles Coyote Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 901
Loc: S.W. Michigan
Thanks guys, I was tooling around with JBM's stability calculator some and it looks like those two may work on warm summer days... Scout1's calculator says it’s a no go.

The reason for my question is I found a SPS varmint here locally with an ok price tag.

If nothing else I can still best my 308's performance with berger 95's & 87's. With 87 hornady v-max it is almost the same in the wind as my 308 175's, just a lot less elevation needed. If I get it and 105's don’t work I can always burn the barrel out shooting 95's I guess...

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#1412 - 08/24/11 04:19 AM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
ridge Offline
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Registered: 06/18/11
Posts: 915
Id try it.

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#1414 - 08/24/11 04:26 AM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Too Tall Offline
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 217
Loc: Thompson Falls MT.
I bought a Winchester Sporter, in .243 Win. And it wouldn't throw the heavy bullets very good. Once in awhile it would group, but most of the time it would throw them all over. Finally decided to use the 95 CT bullet. The rifle liked them good.
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#1419 - 08/24/11 11:41 AM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
dakor Offline
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Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 564
Loc: Buxton, ND
I shoot the 105 Berger VLD and also have tried to use the 105 A-max in my 6mm-284 with a 9 twist. Granted I have more speed the 105 Berger shoots 1/4 MOA and 1/2 on days I dont shoot very well. The 105 Amax I think would work better for you in you as I believe Hornady is wrong about it needing an 8 twist. I had bullets dust on me out of my 6-284 even dropping the velocity down to 3100fps this is with a 6 groove 9 twist hart barrel. I know other guys who have used a 243 with a 9 wist and 105 A-max out to 1000 yards with them and they worked fine.
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#1421 - 08/24/11 05:06 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
rem06 Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
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Loc: huntingdon,Pa
Quote:
Questioning what bullet weights will work with its 9.125" twist (not 100% sure if it’s a 9.125" or 9.25" but I believe I read its 9.125 somewhere). Bryan Litz's data shows Berger 87vld & 95vld should work but any one try 105 bergers or 105 a-max in this rifle before. Those two look questionable in stability...

If you have tried these in a factory Remington barrel I would like to hear from you and your experience, also at what ASL you were shooting at.


niles

i have shot the 105A-max out to 500yds + and they were fine for deer! (1100ASL) I had a rem 700 SPS varminter 9.25tw and it was a great shooter! (stupid sale frown )
took 3rd in a 2 day agg at 100-300-500 gh shoot for $160.00 prizewith the 90gr scenar(in group)!

90gr scenars is where it ROCKED!

i bought some 95's and never got to them,had no need to!

to 500yds the 105 is definately a deer load(it did stabilize them) with the 105A-max but they didn't beat the 90scenar(in group)!

the faster 8tw MIGHT be better? for 105's, but i would take my 90scenars up with it! the 90"s are awesome on deer (150-200lbs) in my doing to 300yds or so.

it depends what you are after? "MOA of deer or match?" and the 243 on deer is not much on deer very far beyond 500yds?

600-700? 95 might be right there???

"would i shoot the 105 Amax at a deer at 500yds with the 700SPS varminter with the tupperware stock? absolutely!


Edited by rem06 (08/24/11 05:49 PM)
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#1422 - 08/24/11 06:57 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Niles Coyote Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 901
Loc: S.W. Michigan
grin thanks rem06

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#1439 - 08/26/11 05:50 AM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
JasonH Offline
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Registered: 08/06/11
Posts: 82
Loc: Oklahoma City
Niles, I just snagged an SPS Varmint in 243 over on SH. I'll let you know if it stabilizes the 105's. Or if you jump on the purchase of that one I can send you some 105's to try so you don't have to buy a box to find out.

I also have some 87gr Vmax's if you want to try those. If the Varmint model i get doesn't stabilize the 105's I'm going straight to the 87gr Vmax for coyotes and 85gr TSX for deer.
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#1443 - 08/26/11 07:00 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Niles Coyote Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
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Thanks Jason!

I am still thinking it over, so that would be great.

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#1444 - 08/26/11 07:04 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Too Tall Offline
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 217
Loc: Thompson Falls MT.
Niles, I have killed deer past 500 yards, with a 95 grain bullet, out of a few .243's.
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#1448 - 08/26/11 07:48 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Niles Coyote Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 901
Loc: S.W. Michigan
I am looking at this from two different angles, killing stuff and a cheaper means to reach 1000y with the same or improved wind resistance than my best preforming 308 load.

The proper thing to do is have a rifle built/rebarreled… I know… this factory rifle just caught my eye and made me ponder.

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#1450 - 08/26/11 08:34 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Too Tall Offline
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 217
Loc: Thompson Falls MT.
"Proper" is not always in the budget...
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#1451 - 08/26/11 09:02 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Guy M Online   content
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Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 1036
Loc: Washington State, dry side
Some amazing accuracy has been accomplished with factory rifles. Savage is winning major, world class matches with factory rifles, and years ago a bunch of guys (me included) did real well in some "tactical/practical" matches with Remington varmint rifles.

Buy it, shoot the heck out of it with the best bullet it will stabilize - and next year treat it to a new fast-twist custom barrel.

Guy
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#1455 - 08/26/11 09:36 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Niles Coyote Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 901
Loc: S.W. Michigan
That’s the way I am leaning too.

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#1466 - 08/27/11 07:28 AM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
JasonH Offline
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Registered: 08/06/11
Posts: 82
Loc: Oklahoma City
Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote
That’s the way I am leaning too.


me too! mine will have a 7.75 twist barrel next year.
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#1527 - 08/29/11 05:42 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Niles Coyote Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 901
Loc: S.W. Michigan
grin Guess what followed me home today.... grin

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#1528 - 08/29/11 06:33 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Scout1 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 130
Loc: NE FLA
Good for you, now go have some fun laugh

Pictures and range report
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#1529 - 08/29/11 06:36 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Niles Coyote Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 901
Loc: S.W. Michigan
Rifle, dies, a box 105 amax bullets and a pound of retumbo (more on the powder later).

My dealer was out of brass, so not wanting to leave me brass-less he found two boxes of factory federal ammo he has had since opening the shop some 15 years ago, on the house! Support your local guys, when was the last time a mail-order company gave you something of value when they were out of stock???

Wanting to find out if these 105 would work, I pulled out 6 bullets from the factory ammo, dumped the powder and replaced it with H1000, two at 44g, two at 45, and two at 46 (hodgdon’s max). Using a cleaning rod I made a quick check of my approximant OAL to the lands and found that to be near very near 2.8” so I loaded to 2.785. Ran out the door to my 100 yard range and zero’d my scope with the factory stuff and began my 2 shot group accuracy/stability test. I am happy to say that at 680 ASL @ 75 degrees these are stable! First two at 44g landed about ¾” apart, the two at 45g were .55 measured on the outside edges and the final two at 46g measured .48ish on the outside edges. So even after pulling bullets on new brass this gun shoots! It will be interesting to see what it will do with a properly reloaded cartridge! I did drop the barreled action into a better stock before shooting as the factory stock was touching.


Sorry, no pics yet or real range report for a few days.

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#1536 - 08/30/11 03:39 AM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Cinch Offline

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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 703
Loc: Wyoming
Well that's great! Those 105s are awesome. Glad they will work out for you!

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#1537 - 08/30/11 03:57 AM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Niles Coyote Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 901
Loc: S.W. Michigan
Forgot to add, I fired a 10 shot group with the factory stuff... I can see why it wasn’t selling. I had a 1.8" with a LOT of horizontal spread that was not from me. The bullet was jacketed soft point at 100gr.

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#1538 - 08/30/11 04:09 AM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
rem06 Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
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Loc: huntingdon,Pa
i shot that crappy tupperware stock in a 2 day agg match and took 3rd with it! I shot it in a HS Precision taken off from a sendaro and the groups quit moving POI on different days but it was just as accurate.

scroll down to factory,mostly savages,ond single shots,as long as it is factory. just allowed bedded and trigger adjust, no stock changes,recrowning etc...

groundhog championship

105 A-max will do you fine,just dont rule out the 95's and the 90gr scenar(H4350)

and post some groups
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#1543 - 08/30/11 06:49 AM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
yobuck Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
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Loc: e.c. fl. / n.c. pa.
i havent heard about the cleaning rod deal for oal. a few weeks back various ways to obtain oal was discussed. i was having problems getting on the site so i couldnt ask dumb questions.
my opinions were established before loading became a household passtime and without some of the modern inventions.
i always use an empty unprimed case and a partially seated bullet. then just close the bolt on it thereby seating it with the rifleing. at that point adjust the die to touch the bullet
and make final depth adjustments from there by smoking the bullet with a match. a black marker works also. ive seen it done with a loaded case by walking outside and pointing it at the ground before closing the bolt. i use the final version as a gauge for future use and prefer an empty case.
anyway it looks like your rifle is going to work out well. if it shoots it shoots. a dead animal wont care if it's not custom.

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#1631 - 09/02/11 01:00 AM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: yobuck]
Niles Coyote Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 901
Loc: S.W. Michigan
Originally Posted By: rem06
i shot that crappy tupperware stock in a 2 day agg match and took 3rd with it!


Excellent work! Wow, look at all those Savage's they must be doing something right!

I got plans for the stock. It will be my canvas. I envision pillars, bedding and a M5 DBM. Country boy style grin I was kind of surprised that is was made entirely of plastic molding. But that will be a good thing for what I want to do. I will add pictures down the road as things progress.

Originally Posted By: yobuck
i haven’t heard about the cleaning rod deal for oal.


Not much to it and I was not looking for firm numbers just a quick idea of where the lands started so I could get some rounds down range.

I ran my cleaning rod down the barrel with the bolt closed, put some masking tape around the rod and marked the muzzle location on the now taped rod. I then put a bullet in the chamber and pushed it forward to the lands with a pistol cleaning rod and held that in place while I snugged up the rod that was in the barrel with the bullet and marked the muzzle location on the tape around the rod again. Measured these two points and it looked like 2.81"

Once I started loading I loaded one up at 2.81" and it felt like it was snug on closing. Bumped the bullet down .015" and chambered it again with no resistance. It may not be as exact as using my stoney point tool but I didn’t have a case for it yet and I figured this would get me close enough. wink

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#1632 - 09/02/11 03:52 AM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Niles Coyote Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 901
Loc: S.W. Michigan
Ok, I gentlemen, I am looking for velocity. I tried Retumbo but could not fit enough in the case (half why up the neck) and I was a few grain below listed max data. I have H1000, H4350 and H4831 on my shelf. I loaded up H1000 and I am at max listed +.5 grains and hearing light compression (brass was new so I may gain alittle more room)when seating and when I crono'd I was at 2810fps. No pressure shown on my FC cases. H4350 and H4831sc both have lower book velocities. On a positive note, my brass order arrived last night so I have 100pcs of Lapua brass now and will check H20 today between FC and Lapua. I am hoping Lapua may have a little more room in the case but I am beginning to think I may not see 2900fps out of this gun with any Hodgdon extreme powders...

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#1634 - 09/02/11 05:38 AM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
300wsm Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 314
What were you up to with Ret and 1000. With 1000 I needed a drop tube. 4350 and 22 also worked.

Do you trust your crony? my br runs 2850 and can go up you should have no problem hitting mid to high 2900' at minimum

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#1683 - 09/03/11 09:44 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Niles Coyote Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 901
Loc: S.W. Michigan
I ended up returning the retumbo, I attempted to charge a case with 2 grains short of a max charge and the powder was all ready coming up into the neck. That was with a 5" powder drop tube.

The lack of velocity was the FC cases. I ran some Lapua brass over the crono and I am now at the door step of 2900 with Hodgdon's max. No pressure signs yet w/ H1000 so I will see if I can reach another node.

Ive been very pleased with the accuracy thus far. I have yet to have a group over an 1". I also tried some berger 105's today. I am jumping them since I cant reach the lands and still remain mag friendly. I ran three groups of three, each set at a different depth. First group was 3/4", second I had two shots in the same hole and the thrid opening it up to 1/2" and the same thing happened with the third. So I am going to split the difference between the last two and see what I get. They also seem to run a little faster than the Amax.

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#1686 - 09/04/11 06:26 AM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Guy M Online   content
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Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 1036
Loc: Washington State, dry side
Have you read through this great article on loading the .243 and .243 AI?

http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

Some good info there... Be sure to read the part about the moly coated bullets though, I don't think there's any way to generate such velocity with naked bullets, and some of the powder charges they're using with moly would likely generate unsafe pressures with standard bullets.

Good info though, well worth the time to read it.

Regards, Guy
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#1687 - 09/04/11 06:31 AM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Guy M]
Guy M Online   content
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Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 1036
Loc: Washington State, dry side
Dad spoiled me rotten back in 1974 with a brand new 6mm Rem 700 BDL, topped by a 3-9x Leupold scope. Pretty serious varmint & deer rifle, if a little on the strange side, back then. I went years before I even ran into anyone else using a 6mm Remington.

My son still uses that rifle, with an updated Leupold, on rock chucks, coyotes and mule deer. I'm convinced that a .243 or 6mm is a great way to go for a general purpose rifle for deer and smaller game. Easy on the shoulder, accurate and lethal. The same reasons I like my .25-06 as well.

Someday, my good old .308 Win/M700 "Green Machine" will likely receive a .243 barrel... Kind of looking forward to that day, although I'm still enjoying the .308 for now.

Regards, Guy
_________________________
Shot placement. Hit 'em right. Hit 'em hard.

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#1807 - 09/13/11 12:35 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Niles Coyote Online   content
old hand

Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 901
Loc: S.W. Michigan
Shot to 1000y today. First time past 100y with this rifle and I was quite surprised with the ease. I printed out some drops from JBM figuring my velocity to be in the neighborhood of 2875 with both the 105 A-Max and Berger VLD. Judging by the drops I dialed I am closer to 2885 with today’s weather conditions.

First shot down the barrel was at 600y and I was rewarded a hit perfect in elevation and only 1/10th off my wind hold... held to much! Second and third shots made a nice 1/2 moa group. I then dialed my drop for 1000y and this was the result!

105 VLD 3 shots 7" (second shot was hard to see but its dead center in the funky orange)


105 A-Max 4 shots 3 in 9" 4th opened it up to 18" not sure what happened...



I got a first round hit with my 308 at 600y as well, but that was cheating, as I knew what the wind was doing by then. I had 10-15mph winds twisting around but mostly from 10:30 with the two flags at 700 and 900 showing little to no wind for the 1000y shots.

I will get a picture up of the rifle soon but its current configuration is a HS PSS stock, DNZ low one piece mount (I am really liking these) holding one of my NF 3.5-15-50's

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#1808 - 09/13/11 01:13 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
IChaseCoues Offline
member

Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 116
Loc: Mosquero, NM
Wow those are some awesome groups.... from a factory barrel no less! Congrats, it looks like the venture worked out for you.

Now for some pics of the rifle!

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#1825 - 09/14/11 12:35 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: IChaseCoues]
300wsm Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 314
Looks like it stabilized those 105's ok shocked

nice shooting, what are your 600 and 1k come ups, curious how close they are to my BR.

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#1834 - 09/14/11 06:33 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: IChaseCoues]
Niles Coyote Online   content
old hand

Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 901
Loc: S.W. Michigan
My drops in mil

Amax= 3.6/600 & 8.7/1000

VLD= 3.5/600 & 8.3/1000

Originally Posted By: IChaseCoues
Now for some pics of the rifle!


With a moon flower and oil drum blush





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#5066 - 05/14/12 08:40 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Niles Coyote Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 901
Loc: S.W. Michigan
Tried some 107 smk's, the ones that have "For 7-8 twist barrels" groups at 100 were good out of my 9.125 twist barrel. Plan on going long with them in the next day or two and playing with the seating depth. Then I think I'll get a box of hornady's new 105 bthp and try those as well.

There may be some pictures to follow...

This rifle keeps inpressing me, glad you all helped talk me into it!

For those that are interested, my load so far is H1000 @ 46g with the 107's in winchester brass, WLR primer and seated to feed from the factory mag.

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#5078 - 05/15/12 12:35 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
Niles Coyote Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 901
Loc: S.W. Michigan
Well, they are stable to 1000 but I dont think I am going to buy any more. A little on the slow side and my berger load easly out does this one in the wind and groups better on target.

Shot a nice 5" group at 700 with my 308 tactical though... and got more data on my 260 and a better seating depth to boot.

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#5079 - 05/15/12 03:01 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
ridge Offline
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Registered: 06/18/11
Posts: 915
Nice shooting, im going to have to try some H1000 in a 243.

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#5093 - 05/16/12 04:16 PM Re: Looking at a remington 243 varmint sps [Re: Niles Coyote]
rem06 Online   content
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Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 637
Loc: huntingdon,Pa
my 243 SPS was the best shooting factory piece i ever had YTD! I shot 90gr scenars with a hot load of H4350 and it was awesome!

when i get tired playing with the 22-250 Sako Forster i am running now, i have a Sako Forster twin in 243 that i can't hardly wait to get going!
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